Minutes of the Guild Meeting - May 4, 2009

Tryden · May 5, 2009

Minutes of the meeting - Monday, May 4, 2009

Iwant to start by saying I think we had an extremely productive meetinglast night. Yes, a lot of it was talking about downfalls and setbacksin Vindictive, but there was no bickering, and we thought up of easilydoable solutions for everything. So congratulations to everyone onthat.

Now, with me gone for a month, I've taken the feedbackand made the following changes effective immediately for Vindictive.They're not so large in scope that they're impossible, but significantenough that it should substantially improve the guild.

Agenda:

1. Bi-weekly guild meetings
2. Officership changes
3. Website registration now mandatory
4. All new members interviewed
5. New alt and activity policy
6. Attitude and behaviour
7. Morale
8. Alliance
9. Vent use
10. Promotions

1. Bi-weekly guild meetings 

Weshould now schedule bi-weekly meetings to be held on differing daysthroughout the week (i.e. the next meeting can be held on Wednesday toallow more people to show who can't make Mondays). These meetingsshould do the following:

A chairshould be elected to guide the meeting the way I did last night. Thechair should be neutral and fair to everyone. You oversee the meetingmore than anything, and keep it from spiraling out of control. Irecommend Uchoo for this position.
Themeeting should adhere to the guidelines I put in place last night. Nopersonal attacks. No singling out people. And putting people intotimeout if they get out of control (luckily that didn't happen lastnight).
Massive gold bags will be givenaway for this meeting. If no one needs them they will be won via trivia(i.e. Warhammer or guild-specific questions)

2. Officer changes

Officerswill now be able to only have one character with a Warmaster or DreadLord title. One of the main reasons I found that most people findthere's no leadership is we haven't solidified brands. People know meas Tryden, because that's all I play. This shouldn't limit you to onecharacter, but everyone should know who your main is. Creating a brandaround your character is important so the leadership is clear andpresent. All alts will be able to have Legionnaire as their highesttitle. You may chage mains if needed, but try to develop and work onone character.
There will not be a newDread Lord promoted. HOWEVER. The current Dread Lords have agreed to bemore visible and put more time in. If they fail to do this, we are nowstarting a Dread Lord rotation. This is to prevent leaders from gettingburned out on the game. It is their responsibility, as well as otherofficers, to decide when a new rotation should happen. For example,under this new system, when Aribella took a back seat, his positionwould of been rotated. This will keep Dread Lords active.

3. Website registation is mandatory

All officers must tell new members and make it clear signing up to the website is mandatory

4. Interviews of new members

Allnew members, regardless if they're friends or not of current members,must undergo an interview process. Mandatory questions include:
- How'd you hear about Vindictive?
- Your age? (We are an 18+ guild)
- What are your play times?
- What are you going to bring to the guild?
- Otherquestions can be tacked on. But don't make it an interrogation. Afterthe interview is done, you don't have to invite them right away. Tellthem you want to run some quests or do some RvR, and interact with themthat way. There's no need to do this for hours, but get an idea ofwho's being invited.
 
- You don't have to play with all new members. We're going to be getting so many asking to join that's not feasible. But you must know who you're inviting, and if the interview process makes someone questionable, don't invite. Team with them and then invite or decline based on your experience with them.

5. New alt and activity policy

All members are limited to two alts maximum. All additional alts should go into our alt guild, Ascension.
Youmust notify an officer if you're not going to be logging on yourcharacter for more than 3 weeks. The new inactivity policy is 3 weeks(21 days) or you get kicked. You're welcome back to come to the guildafter that, we just need to kick to ensure current members benefit fromguild progression (i.e. getting guilds mounts).
Uchoowill be setting up the alt guild by getting it from Sallem. It's calledAscension. We're also going to talk to Exxe about getting it into theAlliance so our alts can communicate with the main guild.

6. Attitude and behaviour

Lastnight we talked about guilds that had become pariahs and kicked out oftheir alliance because of behaviour. One member can ruin the rep of anentire guild. Remember this and base your attitude off of it.
Whatyou say and do reflects the entire guild. Keep flames and fights out ofregion chat and don't attack other players. If they attack you put themon ignore.
This is important. We will kick people we get multiple and excessive complaints about.
If you want to shit talk, shit talk non-members in guild chat or on Vindictive's forums, where non-members can't turn the situation into a giant flamewar that drags the entire guild into it.

7. Morale

If you're upset or frustrated. Log off. Complaining about the game or about losing is harmful to guild morale.
Officersespecially. Show leadership. One of the main aspects of leadership isto keep players upbeat, even if you're losing. This will keep peopleplaying despite the worst of setbacks. A GOOD ATTITUDE IS IMPORTANT.

8. Alliance

Weare not participating in the next Alliance scheduled fort push. Thiswill not be to be smug or above the alliance. What happened last timewas unacceptable and we do not want it to happen again.
Exxewill be informed. We will still participate in future Alliance fort pushes, but we want to see one with proper leadership first before we become involved as a guild again. (Individual members can still join them, however, we will not be leading any warbands or officially participating in it).

9. Ventrilo

Allmembers have to have vent downloaded and be able to listen. You don'tneed to talk, but vent is now mandatory to have. Do not confuse thiswith you need to be on all the time. But if we do a dungeon or RvR youmust listen.
Those without vent will find this is not the guild for them. Sorry.
All officers should have the vent information available and ready to use.
Newchannels are being created by Stomp that will only be accessible bymembers who have a Title beside their name. This was agreed as the bestpolicy to prevent spying by other guilds or sabotaging of our vent. Anymembers in these channels can rest assured that whoever has access wasspecifically granted it by Stomp or myself.

10. Promotions

Promotions work as follows:
Warrior: This is granted one week (or more if the person is not that active) after joining. It's either granted, saying the person is part of the guild, or the person is kicked for being incompatible.
Champion: This is granted with no specific timeframe to someone who is active in the guild and visible. They take part in dungeon runs, RvR and have contributed to things like the guild bank. No leadership needs to be demonstrated for this position. They are also a team player who gets along with members.
Legionnaire: Granted to someone who shows leadership and has helped set up RvR warbands and dungeon runs. They contribute to the guild bank and are helpful to members. They are team players who are willing to rise to the occasion when officers are not present or overwhelmed.
Doombringer: The junior officer rank. This person has shown outstanding leadership ability and are willing to lead and direct when needed. They contribute to the guild by PLing members, putting items and money into the guild bank, and help others when necessary. Simply, they show themselves to be someone who wants to lead and help further the guild. They are knowledgeable about the game and are respected by the guild.
Warmaster: This is given to someone who's proven themselves time and time again to be reliable, a strong and exceptional leader, and capable of setting up events to keep the guild active. They help members whenever someone asks for it. These members are part of the officership structure that makes the decisions and create and lead the events necessary to keep the guild moving. They represent the guild to other guilds and guild leaders, and make executive decisions in the absence of Dread Lords and the Overlord. As a collective they form the leadership of Vindictive. As such, they must exhibit all the qualities necessary of a leader, including being helpful, diplomatic and assertive when necessary.
Dread Lord and Overlord: These are the main leaders of Vindictive. They make the executive decisions and approve all changes to the guild. They work behind the scenes to resolve conflicts, make sure rules are followed, and keep things moving. They have information for guild members whenever needed about how the guild functions and why certain decisions are made. All final decision-making is done through the Dread Lords and the Overlord, the latter which is the overseer of the guild, with ultimate veto power.

Closing words

Themeeting last night showed we have a lot of mature members who careabout the guild. This November Vindictive celebrates four yearstogether and we're stronger than ever. We have respect as a gamingcommunity who accomplishes the apex of gaming content across multiplegames.

We're continuing that tradition. Obviously we'veadmitted we're not perfect and have a lot of work to do. But with thepeople we have in the guild now, we can accomplish all the above goalsthat we've set out for ourselves.

.SPiNE · May 5, 2009

You promised me that you'd make a SPiNE rank for me =/

Hock · May 5, 2009

tl:dr

Marius Xerxes · May 5, 2009

Since I was not able to make the meeting due to work, I wanted to respond here with my thoughts and opinions.

Section 1

Bi- Weekly meetings are nice, but I think a little much.  There is a lot to catch up on for people when they arent able to make it to one, and without you on here to put the notes of said meeting down, its even harder.  Someone could step up to this role, but they would have to have an open schedule to make it to all these meetings, and the drive to accuratly and unbiasly put down what was discussed. I suggest a weekly meeting held on a weekend when most people are out of school, and off work.  I myself get caught up pretty well after I get off work by mutiple players.  But voicing my opinion now, on a forum after people have talked and debated, leaves greater chance to have issues fall on def ears.

I also heard there was a seperate Officer meeting after the main one.  I would encourage that this wait until ALL Officers can be present, or at the very absolute least the most active of us Officers, even if it means waiting a few hours or a few days.  I hear a lot of input that the day time people dont, for various reasons, and I want to be their (night players) voice when it comes to ideas and changes.

Section 2.

I like the changes made to Warmaster and Dread Lord characters.  It was something I suggested awhile ago on these very forums.  Im happy to see it was soemthign that stuck in peoples minds as a positive change.

No new Dread Lord is a bit frustrating for me.  Being more visable does not help the very, and increaseingly active night game.  No current Dread Lord is on that late any longer then an hour at most, and no where near frequently.  Hue, Rodtoosh, Myself and Magerbooze are the 4 most visable members (in terms of being Officer's or proven leadership material) on at this time, with Magerbooze and myself being often the very last 2 members of the guild to log for the night (or morning however you look at it).  I think having a Dread Lord that is on during this time would be a great benifit to the guild as a whole and gives literal 24 hour coverage.  There are other reasons, but ill take them to a new post to discuss.

Section 3.

Completly Agree. 

Section 4.

I like this.  Though I encourage mutiple Officers are there for the interview.  Only one has to be asking questions, but it will give mutiple people an impression at once that can be shared with the rest of us who were not in on it.  As peoples interactions with certian types may vary, its good to have different minds hearing the same questions and their answers.

Section 5.

Having a Dread Lord, who have premissions to kick would be nice at night.  People who play late can notify them at this time and whatever course can be taken at that time.  Even if your going to be gone I still say kick the person.  They can simply notify the Dread Lord they are back and they can be fully reinstated with their former Guild Rank and premissions.  Its nice to know you can go to the same person who is on at the same time you are on a consistant basis.  No hunting someone else down who due to play schedule, you may not be as framilier with.

Myself, Hue, Aribella, Magerbooze and Rod already started an Alt guild, simply called Vindictive Alts.  Are we just going to toss that guild out now that its made and ready to go?

Section 6.

Sending personal tells in ones own defence should not be frowned upon.  Defending ones self is a right we all have.  Moreover, automatically taking the word of a complaintant is silly. Especially if they come from another Guild who on other forums have shown open holtility and/or distain to our Guild and some of its members.  Listen to what they have to say and ask for screen shots.  Then pull the person accused aside and ask for their side of the story.  Then based on what you have seen and heard, make a judgement call on where to go next.  Any of you with real life supervisory experiance from your jobs know how this goes.  Successfully managing people is an artform to be applied, not a bat or big stick to walk around with to hammer people down or fulfil you own inflated ego.

Section 7. 

Could'nt agree more.

Section 8.

Hue, Rod, Magerbooze, myself and others have been talking about the next big Fort Push.  The next one we as a Guild are involved, Vindictive should take the reigns and lead the Alliance in the push.  I have open channels with TBC and have been talking more with Virsago with Hostile.  I am going to present the idea and see what we can pull together for a properly executed and more importatnly, timed, Fort Push.  This middle of the day, or right when people get off work on week days nonsense is ludicrous if you want victory.  As this develops ill be letting everyone know.

Section 9.

Sounds good.

Section 10.

I like it.  Just reemmber my above comments on why I think we should have one more Dread Lord.  I have more reasons, but this is already a crazy long post and wont fill it up even more.  If you want to know, id be happy to talk to you about it Tryden.

Irishia · May 5, 2009

It hurts ...It hurts me ....But i know things are going to be diff soon....Your all my firends but....

 I /agree 100% with nensiurolis...

Hue..

Viracocha11 · May 6, 2009

Vindictive WILL be leading the next fort push. I plan on discussing strategy and addendum tonight on vent.

TaichiPowerTapz · May 6, 2009

Marius Xerxes said:

Beingmore visable does not help the very, and increaseingly active nightgame.  No current Dread Lord is on that late any longer then an hour atmost, and no where near frequently.

I think it's a good idea to have a night shift Dreadlord!  Though it could be argued that being required to join the forums is a good way to get those night people to communicate with the day people more.

Tryden · May 6, 2009

Marius Xerxes said:

Since I was not able to make the meeting due to work, I wanted to respond here with my thoughts and opinions.

Section 1

Bi- Weekly meetings are nice, but I think a little much.  There is a lot to catch up on for people when they arent able to make it to one, and without you on here to put the notes of said meeting down, its even harder.  Someone could step up to this role, but they would have to have an open schedule to make it to all these meetings, and the drive to accuratly and unbiasly put down what was discussed. I suggest a weekly meeting held on a weekend when most people are out of school, and off work.  I myself get caught up pretty well after I get off work by mutiple players.  But voicing my opinion now, on a forum after people have talked and debated, leaves greater chance to have issues fall on def ears.

I also heard there was a seperate Officer meeting after the main one.  I would encourage that this wait until ALL Officers can be present, or at the very absolute least the most active of us Officers, even if it means waiting a few hours or a few days.  I hear a lot of input that the day time people dont, for various reasons, and I want to be their (night players) voice when it comes to ideas and changes.

We agreed we would try bi-weekly first, because I was debating between that or monthly. If bi-weekly turns into a little much than we will switch to monthly.

Section 2.

I like the changes made to Warmaster and Dread Lord characters.  It was something I suggested awhile ago on these very forums.  Im happy to see it was soemthign that stuck in peoples minds as a positive change.

No new Dread Lord is a bit frustrating for me.  Being more visable does not help the very, and increaseingly active night game.  No current Dread Lord is on that late any longer then an hour at most, and no where near frequently.  Hue, Rodtoosh, Myself and Magerbooze are the 4 most visable members (in terms of being Officer's or proven leadership material) on at this time, with Magerbooze and myself being often the very last 2 members of the guild to log for the night (or morning however you look at it).  I think having a Dread Lord that is on during this time would be a great benifit to the guild as a whole and gives literal 24 hour coverage.  There are other reasons, but ill take them to a new post to discuss.

Section 3.

Completly Agree. 

Section 4.

I like this.  Though I encourage mutiple Officers are there for the interview.  Only one has to be asking questions, but it will give mutiple people an impression at once that can be shared with the rest of us who were not in on it.  As peoples interactions with certian types may vary, its good to have different minds hearing the same questions and their answers.

Section 5.

Having a Dread Lord, who have premissions to kick would be nice at night.  People who play late can notify them at this time and whatever course can be taken at that time.  Even if your going to be gone I still say kick the person.  They can simply notify the Dread Lord they are back and they can be fully reinstated with their former Guild Rank and premissions.  Its nice to know you can go to the same person who is on at the same time you are on a consistant basis.  No hunting someone else down who due to play schedule, you may not be as framilier with.

Myself, Hue, Aribella, Magerbooze and Rod already started an Alt guild, simply called Vindictive Alts.  Are we just going to toss that guild out now that its made and ready to go?

Section 6.

Sending personal tells in ones own defence should not be frowned upon.  Defending ones self is a right we all have.  Moreover, automatically taking the word of a complaintant is silly. Especially if they come from another Guild who on other forums have shown open holtility and/or distain to our Guild and some of its members.  Listen to what they have to say and ask for screen shots.  Then pull the person accused aside and ask for their side of the story.  Then based on what you have seen and heard, make a judgement call on where to go next.  Any of you with real life supervisory experiance from your jobs know how this goes.  Successfully managing people is an artform to be applied, not a bat or big stick to walk around with to hammer people down or fulfil you own inflated ego.

No one defending themselves in tells or flaming in tells is going to be punished, unless it constitutes harresment, in which case you're breaking the EULA to begin with. I have no business what you say in tells and neither does the guild. But make sure it's personal and you're not pretending to represent Vindictive. (i.e. "You're a piece of shit and Vindictive thinks you are too." The policy itself was specifically for region chat and on public forums.

But good points.

Section 7. 

Could'nt agree more.

Section 8.

Hue, Rod, Magerbooze, myself and others have been talking about the next big Fort Push.  The next one we as a Guild are involved, Vindictive should take the reigns and lead the Alliance in the push.  I have open channels with TBC and have been talking more with Virsago with Hostile.  I am going to present the idea and see what we can pull together for a properly executed and more importatnly, timed, Fort Push.  This middle of the day, or right when people get off work on week days nonsense is ludicrous if you want victory.  As this develops ill be letting everyone know.

I was originally going to do this, and last night I said I was. Then I suggested killing the Dread Lord position. I got feedback and slept on it.

Personally I'm in favour of Dread Lord rotation to prevent burnout and trying out new leadership at the top. And I feel for you guys. Right now Zaz is supposed to be the evening Dread Lord but if that's not working, we can see about rotating, and Dread Lords should be responsive to that. Hell, I even volunteered to step down as Overlord and get someone else in if people felt we needed someone more active. We should rotate based on what's best for the guild. And I think all Warmasters and Dread Lords agree with that.

We don't need more than three. If someone's not doing their job we need to get them into a lower tier position - myself included.

Those who weren't doing their job agreed to change that last night. But if people still feel that we're not doing our jobs then we'll change it and assume Warmaster roles.

Section 9.

Sounds good.

Section 10.

I like it.  Just reemmber my above comments on why I think we should have one more Dread Lord.  I have more reasons, but this is already a crazy long post and wont fill it up even more.  If you want to know, id be happy to talk to you about it Tryden.

All good points Nen. Hope I addressed your concerns to some extent

Marius Xerxes · May 6, 2009

Thank you for the response Tryden.

Only thing I would say is that there is a big difference between twice a week and once a month.  If the twice a week part doesnt work how about once a week or once every 2 weeks?  Wating a month to give a current state of things meeting is a lil long, to me.

But as you said elsewhere, give it a trial period and see how things shake out.

Armai · May 6, 2009

 havb eto takwe excpetion to the comment dread lords are not on more than an hour a day. I am on at least 6 to seven hours a day either on Aribella or Larolbaire.

Tryden · May 6, 2009

Marius Xerxes said:

Thank you for the response Tryden.

Only thing I would say is that there is a big difference between twice a week and once a month.  If the twice a week part doesnt work how about once a week or once every 2 weeks?  Wating a month to give a current state of things meeting is a lil long, to me.

But as you said elsewhere, give it a trial period and see how things shake out.

Sorry Nen we're getting mixed up here. Bi-weekly's meant to be once every 2 weeks.

Marius Xerxes · May 6, 2009

Armai said:

 havb eto takwe excpetion to the comment dread lords are not on more than an hour a day. I am on at least 6 to seven hours a day either on Aribella or Larolbaire.

I never said Dread Lords are only on for one hour a day.  I said they were never on much longer then an hour during the time frame I play in (the night shift), which is becoming increasingly more active.  I gave that as a reason to bring in another Dread Lord but as Tryden expressed, that isnt going to happen.

Lord Tryden said:

Sorry Nen we're getting mixed up here. Bi-weekly's meant to be once every 2 weeks.

Makes more sense now.  I like the once every two weeks plan.

Malietha Lavode · May 6, 2009

wow, I have to say I'm glad I joined earlier on, lol.  I'd never make it in with the new changes

Interviewer: How did you hear about Vindictive?
Me:  Well, actually, I DIDNT.  Some guy just tossed me an invite.  So I said no, then asked for an invite like ten minutes later. 
Interviewer:   What do you think you're bringing to Vindictive?
Me: Umm. . .  my bitch Skraga?  Cookies? The ability to anger random guildmembers by talking about child molestation? Whats the right answer here?
Interviewer: So how old are you in real life?
Me: Well, they say you're only as old as you feel, and i felt up some little . . .   I mean, um. . . 30.  Yeah. >_> I'm 30. Ahem.
Interviewer: Ok, moving on: What are your playtimes? Do you have a somewhat set schedule? are you dependable?Me: Totally. . .  not.  Random? Yeah, I'm gonna have to go with random.
Interviewer: Well, thank you for your time, but thats all the questions I have for now.

Interviewer in guildchat g/ Jesus this Mal person im talking to is LAME. . . someone shoot me.  Well, maybe he plays the game well, that could make up for it.  Lets check it out.

Interviewer during trial party run:
/g Wow this douchebag dies a lot. I mean like the second someone looks at him dirty, i swear his character takes damage without the enemy even casting a spell, wtf

Ok, this guy has got to go.  No way we're taking him in the guild.  We dont have enough rez spells to bother with him.

Tryden · May 6, 2009

<3 Mal for always making funnies and lightening the mood

.SPiNE · May 6, 2009

Lord Tryden said:

<3 Mal for always making funnies and lightening the mood

<div>
</div><div>Wtf, you've never recognized me for my feat =/</div>

beatlebabe6 · May 6, 2009

Sorry I was unable to attend...the atlantic ocean was my lady during this time. But as a woman and an american I feel compelled to offer my two pence.


4. Interviews of new members

Good idea....and good luck with its implementation.
5. New alt and activity policy

Seems to me that there has been quite a few guilds set up as "alt" guilds.  What's the official one?6. Attitude and behaviour & 7. Morale

Given the minutes, I still don't think that the REAL issues were resolved.  I suppose this will only be demonstratable in time so I will be patient.  But I feel the issues of moral and attitude are really INTERNAL issues and not external forces.  I am hard pressed to believe that some outspoken flaming or region defense really is "detrimental" to the guild. 

Obviously being a complete idiot is craziness but I have yet to see a complete idiot in the guild.  In fact, haven't some of our outspoken and true rebelling against the idiots in this game gained us some good members?? 

I'm the first to speak out in vent when members are moaning about the game etc...but the pure fact that it is OUR vent and people are within the comforts of their guild members should exactly be the forum in which people can speak their mind (within reason of course). 

Remember noone is making you play this game or be a member of this guild.  If you're that hard done by, then go play somewhere else with someone else I say!  And judging from this morning quick log-in it looks like some have already taken this mindset to heart.

9. Ventrilo

Good luck with this mandate.  I've run and been part of various guilds, and never has such a mandate been entirely successful.10. Promotions

Good to see some more meat on the bones and clarification of officer ranks.  I hope I start to see those qualifications represented more accurately in those members who will retain the rank going forward.  And I certainly hope that those who have left the guild recently will not automatically get their old rank back...I think you know what I'm saying.



My closing words are this is one of the better guilds I've been involved with and I will ride the wave of Vindicitive for as long as possible.  But it's a proven fact that with large guilds like this you will get drama llhamas and blood.  But that is always the way when large groups of people get together. 

A healthy sense of "this is a game" and no tolerance for ignorance and internal disrespect will always take you far.  Simple.

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Minutes of the Guild Meeting - May 4, 2009

Tryden

Administrator

.SPiNE

Active Member

Hock

Member

Marius Xerxes

Member

Irishia

Member

Viracocha11

Member

TaichiPowerTapz

Member

Tryden

Administrator

Marius Xerxes

Member

Armai

Member

Tryden

Administrator

Marius Xerxes

Member

Malietha Lavode

Member

Tryden

Administrator

.SPiNE

Active Member

beatlebabe6

Member