So what do you think about...

[masterjedijared]

So, I'm going to have a series of posts about some semi-loaded topics.  The purpose of these posts is to help me with my writing and the topics I write on.<div>
</div><div>Some background on me and my goals in this:</div><div>
</div><div>I am a dual major in both Religious Studies and Classical and Medieval Studies (history of western civilization from the dark age of greece to about 1500 CE).  My overwhelmingly potent interests lay with comparative religion and thusly religious studies.  I'm taking up writing pretty much full time since getting involved in a career atm is pointless since I will be going into my doctorate studies in about a year and part-time jobs are really hard to come by where I live.  The economy is poodoo so forth and whatnot.  My becoming a writer will inevitably help me as it helps to get accepted into universities and to land fellowships in universities.  Also, it will yield me income if I'm particularly good at it.</div><div>
</div><div>So, all that aside, here's my propostion.  I hope that everyone who reads these threads of mine will answer and be as honest as they can.  If you want to write a short two line post, no probs.  If you want to write a thesis that's ok and great.  If you want to be beligerant go ahead, but ONLY towards the topic itself.  Don't attack each other or other posters' views.  These posts are about religion and people's views about religion.  NO ATTACKING EACH OTHER OR MAKING HATEFUL REMARKS PERIOD.  </div><div>
</div><div>Example:</div><div>
</div><div>What's you favorite color?</div><div>
</div><div>Good Exchange:</div><div>Poster A: My favorite color is blue.</div><div>Poster B: OMGWTF I HATE COLORS!</div><div>
</div><div>BAD Exchange:</div><div>Poster A: My favorite color is green.</div><div>Poster B: LOLNOOB EVERY1 NOS THAT DUMASSES LIK GREEN OMGWTFBBQ U NOOB!!!111eleven!</div><div>
</div><div>Topic to follow in my immediate next post so that if you want to quote my post you don't have to sift through the above stuff.</div>

 

[masterjedijared]

What do you think about Scientology?

 

[TaichiPowerTapz]

I'm not really one for religion, any religion, but i wouldn't call myself agnostic, sometimes i think I'm still searching for the right one, i dunno.&nbsp; but doing some brief once overs of scientology it didn't really seem like something for me.&nbsp; They take a lot of money from people and the more you 'donate' the higher you are in their church.

 

[beatlebabe6]

masterjedijared said:

What do you think about Scientology?

I researched Scientology heavily in my most recent quest to find religion.&nbsp; And I have a few books from LRH on the shelf.&nbsp; And I have a very close friend in LA who is a staunch scientologist.

I find the concept fascinating and at most very truthful and obtainable.&nbsp; But, and this is a big BUT, the church of scientology bothers me.&nbsp;

I went to the Birmingham UK branch last summer to get my results from my "FREE" personality test.&nbsp; The offices were nice but with iconic framed pictures of John Travolta and just stacks and stacks of LRH books.&nbsp; The people were friendly but the first question they asked me was what I did for a living.&nbsp; The man went through the results of my personality test and I scored in the normal range of most of the criteria and I was asked a series of questions on drug use, tramatic experiences, background etc...some questions were incredibly personal and stuff that I wouldn't even tell some of my best friends.&nbsp; In the end, he proposed buying some more books and having a tutored series of sessions going through the Dianetics book.&nbsp; And then very blatantly said "So...how we gonna pay?"

I made my excuses and left with some marketing material about the books etc.&nbsp; They didn't call me back until about 2 months ago very nicely asking me how I was getting on.

Now I'm not saying that the CoS is wrong in asking for money because then we'd have to denounce the Catholic Church too for passing the offering plate around.&nbsp; But I did find their approach slightly disturbing...it wasn't religion...it was almost like pyschiarty (spelling?).&nbsp; And there are documented cases of the CoS using that kind of detrimental information provided about drug use, crime etc..to&nbsp; blackmail people and play on vulnerabilities.

I suppose the same could be said about alot of religious organisations but I haven't seen the CoS really doing what they set out to do.&nbsp; And that was to "clear" the world of its recessed, pyschotic black spots.

You have to be rich and well-educated to get the most out of scientology (work your way through the massive list of books, get the clearing sessions etc) and there just isn't enough variety to its approach.&nbsp; My LA friend says maybe the Birmingham UK branch was just a bad apple and that I should try the London one...but...

...I went for the poor man's scientology...BUDDHISM!!!

BTW, I would love to have a session with a scientologist auditor to understand my previous lives and uncover the subconscience feelings I have but I'm scared of it.&nbsp; Also documented feedback of people feeling that they were brainwashed during these sessions. :S

 

[Aemon Algiz]

Scientology from my point of view is as any other blind faith. While I believe that there is a God and the such, I personally believe that once you close your eyes and take your last breathe that is the end of your existence. There is no continuation of your existence and you simply slip into the eternal darkness. Scientology relies far too much on spirits, other wise called Thetans in their faith, and that these Thetans are the true essence of what we are.

There is absolutely no scientific evidence or any other form of proof outside of near death experiences (which can easily be explained by chemical interactions in the brain at the time of near death) to prove that some form of soul continues after our brain ceases to function. Actually, it's quite to the contrary, because it has been shown time and time again that our "attentionality" is derived from the summation of brain's activity. Since we derive our existence from the total of our sensations from the environment around us through our eyes, ears, nose, tongue and what not a soul would it would be impossible for a soul to be considered alive even if it did exist since it would lack these sensory tools. I've always of thought of it from the point of view of if you were born without the ability to feel, hear, see, taste, or smell would you even realize that you existed? The most likely answer is, no. You would have no means to understand your existence or even be aware that there is anything around you, so your brain would not even be able to create an existence.

Also, any support that would have been gained through out of bodyexperiences have been disavowed through the use of various experimentalmodels. One model had people who were undergoing life threateningsurgery. A banner with the words, "If you can read this you're dead"above the patient where they could not read it unless they were abovethe surgery instruments. All the patients who had claimed to have anout of body experience and were floating above there body and thesurgery instruments DID NOT see the banner or anything resembling abanner, and this showed that the images they saw in their out of bodyexperience were most likely illusions drawn cognotive maps of the roomand were not actually happening.

Beyond that, it can be shown that all of our "actions" can easily be controlled through electrical stimulation of key brain structures such as Broca's area. We can be tricked into hearing, feeling, or seeing any number of things through such techniques. There have been countless studies on animals and some studies done on humans to show just how programmable we really are as a species, and this demonstrates how we function much more like a computer than like a soul with free will. When we have been taught through some form of reinforcement that something is bad or dangerous we tend to avoid it, because it could threaten our continued to survival. While this entire process may feel controlled it is quite the opposite. When we are presented with a danger our Amygdala begins to release cortosol into our system which triggers our Autonomic nervous system (Automatic, NOT manual) that tells us to fight or run. We don't actually sit and consider all the possible out comes and decide what we want to do, but rather we are given the choice to confront the situation immediatly or run away from it entirely.

An easier example to understand would be the concept of "flow." When you're engaged in a difficult task you tend to forget the rest of the environment around you, including your own consciousness, and focus entirely on the task at hand. You've become nothing more than a limbed computer trying to complete a task and are no longer concerned with the functions of your own life or feelings. So I guess from my point of view, our lives are nothing more than a sequence of complex algorithms that our brain compiles to eventually produce behavior. We are presented with a stimuli, and after millions of years of evolution (guided or unguided) we have been able to develop the appropriate response to it. Similar to how a computer calculates the affect of vectors on a body, although far more intricate and variable. Since were are unaware of these calculations at a conscious level we mistake it for being "attentionality."

While you could argue that the brain is a tool through which the soul gains information of this world and to interact with it through the body, it makes no sense for such a system to have ever developed of been created. If we are actually souls in a body, then why would it be advantageous to have bodies? There is no advantage is the simple answer, as our concept of a soul is a perfect "body" that does not need to eat or drink and is constantly healthy and never dies. This is far more effecient and probably quite a bit more pleasant than being trapped in a body that becomes sick, weak, and eventually dies.

Anyway, moving on from my tangent. Scientology is just a tool to abuse the masses for their money and nothing more. The surveys they give you and the meters they use to measure your thetan levels are meaningless dribble that have absolutely no solid ground on which to stand. They merely take advantage of the fact that the people who are coming to them are already desperate for something because they most likely have an underlying depression, anxiety, or personality disorder that conventional medicine has not been able to relieve. They use these weaknesses to draw new people into their fold until eventually they are drained of all of their resources and find themselves worse off than they were before, and they continue to use the church of scientology as an escape making it an endless circle of misery for those involved.

So, as you can see, boo scientology.

 

[TaichiPowerTapz]

beatlebabe6 said:

...I went for the poor man's scientology...BUDDHISM!!!

Now that's a religion Buddhism ftw

 

[.SPiNE]

<div>I'm Buddhist<span>

</span>
</div><div>It's important to know that there are two distint branches of Buddhism.</div><div>
</div><div>On topic: &nbsp;I'm currently taking a Religious Studies class for my General Education and my professor just covered it last week. &nbsp;Of course, it was only a little bit but from what I've learned, it's pretty far out there. &nbsp;I personally don't agree with anything it says.</div><div>
</div><div>PS: &nbsp;I really, really...REALLY can't attack or make hateful remarks about others? &nbsp;Why, this just doesn't seem very SPiNE-like<span>

</span></div>

 

[FROOZ!]

I'm going to confess first that several of these posts about scientology were waaay too long for me to reading my present 'not-quite-ready-to-commit-to-being-awake" state. I promise to read them later.
Now that my conscience is clear, from what I understand Father Hubbard was a business-minded man. He had stated early in his career that the best way to make money was to create a religion, and then the man went on to create a religion. He was conveniently a science fiction writer, so the pulp that made up his religion was easy for him to make, and if you read a bit of it it DOES sound like a science fiction story.
That doesn't sound like the best basis for a religion or a religious prophet, in my book. I don't trust scientology and scientologists for this reason. They are being duped.

edit: this is just my under-researched "heard it form somebody" opinion, and I'm probably wrong on at least one count.

 

[Ashelia01]

<font color="#ffc0cb"></font><h3><font color="#ffc0cb">
I dont really think anything about them.. it's another excuse for someone to make money as are 90% of all religions.. I honestly think that religion is just a way for a person to have hope that there is something else and that they really exist. There are only 2 things that have survived over the years the bible and fairy tales. Also another pointer is that why in the dark ages were people to poor to get food and such and the church had enough gold and silver to decorate the insides of all the churches? or the catholic "church" has a own contry and yet there are homeless people in italy? Another one is what "God" would ask you to die for him/her, if they are all mighty and knowledge able my question is ..why? No I am not saying that it is wrong to go to church and to beleave in god/gods and so on. I am just saying what I think about scientology and other religions.
<span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"></span></font></h3>

best example


I want to appologize if I upset anyone with this post.

Ash~

 

[Malietha Lavode]

"I'd like to start a religion. That's where the money is." - L. Ron Hubbard to Lloyd Eshbach, in 1949

Aliens brought us here to earth to blow us up with hydrogen bombs.&nbsp;&nbsp; (scientology upper level teaching, simplified)

Why they didnt blow us up where we came from, or didnt just use something more sophisticated than a hydrogen bomb, thus ensuring out destruction,&nbsp;not explained by Hubbard.

Finally, the deathblow to Scientology.&nbsp; Two words.&nbsp;

Ready?

Tom Cruise.

 

[Claymore Frost]

Yeah, Malietha hit on the main things I've heard about Scientology... Seems like a bad 60's Sci-Fi novel for a religion. I don't know of another religion that bases enlightenment solely on given money to the church they way they do. Closest thing I've ever seen is the promise of forgiveness of sins for giving the church large quantities of money, but that was never exactly an enbeded part of the canon in that religous group. Honestly though, I know very little about Scientology, and never gave it any real creedance, based on it's origins.

 

[Malietha Lavode]

The one you're thinking of is Catholicism.&nbsp;

The practice was called Indulgences.&nbsp;

Buy forgiveness for your sins with earthly cash.&nbsp; Gotta love it.&nbsp; Sometime before I die I think I'll become Catholic.&nbsp; And find me a priest who'll sell me salvation before I roast in hell, as I harbor no illusions about making the grade for heaven.

 

[Claymore Frost]

Malietha Lavode said:

The one you're thinking of is Catholicism.&nbsp;

The practice was called Indulgences.&nbsp;

Buy forgiveness for your sins with earthly cash.&nbsp; Gotta love it.&nbsp; Sometime before I die I think I'll become Catholic.&nbsp; And find me a priest who'll sell me salvation before I roast in hell, as I harbor no illusions about making the grade for heaven.

Yeah, I know. I've studied a lot of history and religion myself. I was being nondescript for a reason... Potentially very touchy subject

 

[Armai]

Wow what a really serious thread,&nbsp;I will add to it when I can collect my thoughts and participate at a level this thread deserves.

 

[hughes68]

<span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">&nbsp;<span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">&nbsp;</span></span>

 

[masterjedijared]

Ah, thanks very much everybody.  I appreciate all the answers thus far.  So far I am noticing some engaging trends just from the posts here.  As a tally, I think I have one negative direct experience response, several 'anti' views and a couple of indifferent responses.<div>
</div><div>I will also note that about a third of the posts responded to scientologists but not really their ideologies and most posts reflected an 'I've heard...' and rumor-based view.  There is absolutely nothing wrong with this; this isn't a thread on morality.  It's simply an intellectual query; nothing more and nothing less.</div><div>
</div><div>Also, by all means, if anyone still wants to participate in this response gathering go right ahead.  I'm honestly fascinated.  If you'd like to but may not want to post it in the open, go ahead and PM me through the website here or my personal email <span>masterjedijared@gmail.com</span></div><div>
</div><div>I will post another topic soonish I think.</div><div>
</div><div><span>

</span>
</div>

 

[beatlebabe6]

Jared, if you want a really simple way to understand the scientoloogy ideals and practices, then I would advise you read LRH's Self Analysis.&nbsp; It's a cut down version of his book Diantetics.&nbsp; I have a copy and it's by my bedside along with my meditation book.&nbsp; Good book...even if you aren't into it.&nbsp; For intellectual people like you and me, it takes about 3-4 hours to read front to back.

You can get a cheap one off Amazon or maybe even your library might be able to get it for you through an inter-library loan or have it on their shelves.

I'd also really encourage you to visit a CoS personally to get your own experiences.&nbsp; Take the personality test online&nbsp;and they'll&nbsp;find you, trust me.

 

[masterjedijared]

Aye, I have Dianteics on my reading list atm.  While I know that there's probably more concise books on Scientology I wanted to read or at least get aquainted with the major works that formulate the basis of the ideology.<div>
</div><div>But manythanks!  I really REALLY appreciate folks pointing me to the literature.  I'm a scholar and books are my lifeblood.</div>